Online Talks Recordings - Manor Mission Church

24/3/2020 2 Comments

Online Bible Study - 24th March: Video

We gave the Zoom Bible Study meeting a go. Here's the video of what went on so that you can see/recap. If you have any feedback please let us know. I am going to take the suggestion that we use a smaller chunk next time (so second half of chapter 1).
If anyone has a simple explanation for how predestination and freewill work together then also let us know!
It is possible to use zoom to talk to others in a group if you haven't got Facebook Messenger/WhatsApp/Skype etc.

2 Comments

John

29/3/2020 08:22:11 pm

During the first online Bible class we noticed (Eph v1) the line “11 in whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will…”.

This seemed a tough one. How can we be predestined if we have free will to choose God or to choose a life that excludes God? Steve invited thoughts on the subject, and then so did Dave, so here are mine.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

At the Bible study Dave gave a nicely balanced response, which I understood to mean that God sets us on the path to Him (predestines us for Him); we then choose (free will) whether to come to God or not.

I’d like to look at free will.

Many atheists speak as if free will and predestination is just typical of the sort nonsense that arises with “irrational religion”. In fact, free will alone is a huge issue for all thinkers, philosophers and brain scientists.

We all know we have free will. It’s limited. I can’t grow gossamer wings and fly to the moon as much as I might will it to happen. But I can choose to follow Jesus, or choose not to.

Years ago, I attended an event at the Royal Society in London, which was about human consciousness and free will. Do they exist, or are they illusions? And how do we know?

Many folk attending were like me, the simply curious. There were also mind / brain experts, including Professor Sir Colin Blakemore, one time CEO of the Medical Research Council, who, in 1976 was the youngest person to give the BBC Reith Lectures in which he presented a series of six talks called Mechanics of the Mind.

So what did we talk about and decide? It has become clear that science cannot explain free will. Free will alone is a not a “problem” that can be solved, scientifically or otherwise. I would argue that this is because free will is a gift from God.

In science there are basically two kinds of process: causal processes – X causes Y, and random processes. However you combine them, causal and random processes cannot give rise to free will.

As a result of this, many secular thinkers now believe they have to deny free will even exists. We have brains that take decisions, and then, afterwards, we think we have chosen some course of action when we have not. Our actions have simply arisen from causal and random processes operating in our brains, and they were not freely chosen.

Does this matter to Christians? It may do. Some people are held back from God by the idea that the secular world, and particularly science, has all the answers, and these answers exclude Christ.

We need to remember that there are many thinkers, Christian and otherwise, who point out that rejecting free will results in contradictions.

Then we can remember that the Bible tells us (Proverbs 3, 5, NLT): “5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart; do not depend on your own understanding.”. We can’t understand free will; we can’t understand God. This should never daunt us. Why would we ever imagine that we can understand God?

And we can then remember (Psalm 34:8, NIV) to: “Taste and see that the Lord is good; blessed is the one who takes refuge in him.”. We can all do this. God has predestined us, set us on course for Him. We can then exercise our free will and accept His offer, just by tasting and seeing that He is good.
GB
John

Steve Morley

31/3/2020 07:44:16 pm

As you might expect, I've been giving this subject a lot of thought over the last week (and most of us have had a lot of time to think!). I suspect the solution to this apparent conundrum is a matter of perspective. I've found this quotation very helpful: "Think of the gate of heaven, and above it is a large sign, “Whosoever will may come.” As you pass through the gate, you look back and from the inside the sign reads, “Chosen before the foundation of the world.”

YOUR CART

Online talks

Online Bible Study - 24th March: Video

Leave a Reply.

Author

Archives

Categories